Hello again, everyone! Breaking temple news was just shared by President Russell M. Nelson during his concluding remarks. He mentioned that the details of plans to renovete the Salt Lake Temple and revitalixe Temple Square in various areas will be announced on Friday April 19, with plans for the renovations of the Logan and Manti Utah Temples to be announced as they are developed. I believe it is also fair to mention that since the "pioneer-generation" is a different period of time for every nation in which the Church has been established, temples that fit that definition in such lands will likely also be renovated in the coming years.
Additionally, before announcing 8 new temples, President Nelson emphasized correct protocol for such announcements as outlined in a couple of recent Church News articles. He mentioned that the excitement about each new temple should not detract from the reverential spirit that should prevail as the conference concluded. The 8 new temples were announced for the following locations: Pago Pago American Samoa, Okinawa City Okinawa, Neiafu Tonga, Tooele Valley Utah, Moses Lake Washington, San Pedro Sula Honduras, Antofagasta Chile, and Budapest Hungary.
Of those 8 temples, I had the exact location correct for 6, while the other two caught me by surprise. President Nelson may not have felt the timing was right to outline the extent and timing of his plans, but this brings the total number of temples in any phase to 209. There are now 35 temples with either a site announcement or groundbreaking pending.
Within the next 2 months, that will be trimmed down to 30, and I have a strong feeling more will be done during the remainder of this year to clear the current backlog of announced temples. And some of the locations for which temples were announced today could be candidates for smaller temples that would be easily approved and able to begin and complete construction within a 2-year period.
It is also worth noting that only 1 of those 8 locations this go-round was on the list of the top ten nations with the strongest Church presence that do not have a temple in any phase. American Samoa was ranked fourth on that list. I should also mention that another article released about temples by the Church News recently has me thinking that we may be seeing other new temples announced between now and the October General Conference. Time will tell,, but it is possible.
Having posted about this, I need to get back to updating my temple constrcution progress report, but I will be back later today with my thoughts on this General Conference weekend. In the meantime, that does it for this post. Any and all comments are, as always, welcome and appreciated, on any post at any time, as long as such comments are made in accordance with the established guidelines. Thank you for the privilege of your time. If you enjoyed what you read here and would like to stay informed of newly-added contet, please feel free to subscribe. Until my next post, I wish each one of you all the best and pray that the Lord will bless you all in everything you do.
Sunday, April 7, 2019
BREAKING NEWS: President Nelson Announces 8 New Temples
I have had a lifelong love for Church history, which has extended to ongoing reports of the ministry of our apostles and prophets, General Conference, and all temple developments. This blog enables me to share that love with all who read my thoughts on these developments, which are sometimes reported multiple times per day as needed.
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In addition to my life-long love for the subjects which I cover in the posts of this blog, I have long held the belief that we can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Differences of opinion are natural, while being disagreeable in expressing those differences is not. And in that sense, I have no desire to close the door on anyone who earnestly desires to contribute to the ongoing dialogue on subjects covered in the posts on this blog.
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Any comments made by individuals who opt to not give a name by which they can ber identified may, depending on the substance and tone of such comments, be subject to deletion as well. I would respectfully ask that all of us do all we can to keep the dialogue positive, polite, and without malice or ill-will. May the Lord bless us all in our discussion of these important matters.
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Hello again, everyone! Just wanted to note additionally here that, due to President Nelson announcing the release date of information about the Salt Lake Temple renovation, and in view of the announcement of these 8 new temples, the Church of Jesus Christ Temples site will be down temporarily while it is being updated. My thanks again to you all.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Church's Newsroom has shared the following update on temples under construction:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/temples-currently-under-construction
I should note that some of that information is not up-to-date (the data about the Lisbon Portugal Temple open house and dedication is not included, and it is anticipated that the dedication of the Arequipa Peru Temple will take place before that of the Durban South Africa Temple). Additionally, the update of this nature that will be provided in October will look different.
It may also be worth noting that, if President Nelson is planning to personally preside over the dedication of the Kinshasa Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple one week from today, I imagine that might be done in conjunction with another leg of the Global Ministry Tour, which, if that occurs, may also present him an opportunity to scout out locations for other temples.
I anticipate that several other temple developments will be shared in the coming days, and I will be sure to pass those along to you all here as I become aware of them. Thanks again.
What do you mean by "the update of this nature that will be provided in October will look different"?
DeleteHello, Justin. What I meant was that there will have been 4 temples (Kinshasa, Fortaleza, Port-au-Prince, and Lisbon) that will all have been dedicated by that time, and also some other temples (the 5 set for groundbreaking up through June 8, along with perhaps as many as 5 others that could have their groundbreakings by that time as well). Additionally, I'd anticipate that, at minimum, the dedication information will have been announced for the Arequipa Peru Temple. And that's without considering the progress that may have been made on the others currently on that list, including the Bangkok Thailand Temple, which still has full-scale construction pending.
DeleteThe interesting thing is that the Church omitted some information from the April update on this subjeect (primarily the open house and dedication information for Lisbon). But if I am correct that many of the announced temples which have not yet had a groundbreaking will be on the smaller side, that opens up the prospect that several more could have a groundbreaking by that time. It will be interesting to see where things stand by that time. Hope that helps clarify my statement in question. Thank you, Justin, for taking time to comment.
I somehow overlooked the fact that Okinawa City is in Japan. I had Osaka on my list as a temple candidate, so I count myself as half-right on that one. So considering that I basically had 6.5/8 locations correct, that means my accuracy was 81.25% relating to my temple predictions. Given that my average usually falls between 60-80%, I was above-average this time. As I mentioned, I think it is entirely likely that at least a few more temples could be announced by President Nelson between now and the October 2019 General Conference, and that would be one of many developments you can find reports on here as I become aware of such information. My thanks yet again to all of you.
ReplyDeleteI would not have guessed Okinawa this soon. It is awesome. My guess for Europe was "Austria-Hungary." At one time they were part of the same empire. I thought either or on that temple. Moses Lake Washington was an idea I thought about but I thought the nextn temple in that state would be in the West side side, such as Tacoma.
ReplyDeleteI'm excited for Northern Chile. The saints in and neat Antofagasta must be thrilled as are the saints in San Pedro Sula Honduras and elsewhere around the globe.
ReplyDeleteI did not see Okinawa coming, but I think that part of Japan could use another temple. Hungary has been on my list for almost as long as I have had one. I know I had supported the idea of a temple in Tacoma, which has been on my list a time or two, but public comments pointed to the idea that the Seattle Washington Temple was underutilized. I was pleasantly surprised that a temple was announced for Moses Lake. 6 of the 8 locations have been on my list for about as long ax I've been sharing thoughts about future temples, so it was exciting to see all of those announced.
ReplyDeleteAnd now, of course, I will need to completely redo my thoughts about the temples that have either a site announcement or groundbreaking pending. But it is nice to know that there seems to be a definitive plan in mind. For a relatively new Church President to announce 27 new temples within the first 1.25 years of his prophetic administration is something we have not seen for a while. And although I was somewhat surprised we didn't hear President Nelson detail his plans, I do think that at least some of these 8 newest temples will be on the smaller side.
Either way, I look forward to seeing what's ahead. It's wonderful to have a specific date mentioned for the release of details about the Salt Lake Temple renovation. Due to the size of that temple, the fact that it has not been closed for a lengthy and extensive full renovation priro to now, and what I know about "older" temples which have recently been renovated, I would not be shocked if the renovation process for that temple takes a minimum of 7 years or so to complete. But I say that without knowing how extensive the plans actually are. As always, Chris, thanks for taking time to comment.
These are an exciting variety of locations! Okinawa and Moses Lake are the two biggest surprises for me. On the large temple prediction map I created, neither of those two were on there (although I had one for Yakima Washington). This makes me excited about the potential future temples as there are a large variety of places that I am sure are being considered.
ReplyDeleteHello, Eric, and thank you for stopping by to comment. As I mentioned above, I had heard Tacoma mentioned as a prospect, but with reported attendance issues at the Seattle temple, that was not seen as a feasible prospect. I gather that that factor is not an issue for the Columbia River Washington Temple. It looks as though Moses Lake is almost 79 miles one-way from Columbia River, which, in company with the mileage of other recent announced locations, makes me wonder if the 200-mile goal set by previous prophets will be quartered or halved. And if that occurs, that could open up a whole host of new potential prospects. That mmight be something to think about in the days ahead. Thanks, as always, Eric, for taking time to comment.
DeleteWhen discussing the pioneer era temples, the phrase major restoration caught my attention. I wonder if this was a vague reference to the Logan Temple being restored to it’s original pioneer era styling and functionality.
ReplyDeleteI do think he when he said pioneer era temples, it is in reference to the St George, Logan, Manti and Salt Lake Temples exclusively.
It was exciting to hear they will all be rededicated as well, for me implying an open house. I would fly over for a Salt Lake Temple open house im a hear beat.
Melbourne, thank you for taking time to comment. It may be some time before we hear about the extent and details for the renovations of the Logan and Manti Temples, since President Nelson indicated those would be renovated in "the coming years."
DeleteI know that there may be some ambiguity in terms of knowing what exactly President Nelson meant when he referred to "pioneer-era temples." He first mentioned the planned renovations for St. George, Logan, Manti, and Salt Lake last October, saying more details would be forthcoming as the plans are developed.
But then, in late January of this year, the First Presidency announced the renovation closure for the Hong Kong China Temple:
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/asia-temple-will-close
The unique history relative to the design process for that temple is detailed more fully (complete with relevant supporting sources) at the following webpage:
https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/hong-kong-china-temple/
My reason for citing those websites is to illustrate that when President Hinckley, with the approval of President Benson, sought for and received revelation about the unique design that temple used, that process was referred to as a "pioneer" design for that temple. But above and beyond that, the Executive Directors of the Temple Department and some of their assistants within the last decade and more have made numerous statements to the effect that temples need to be refreshed through a renovation process roughly once every 30-40 years. In addition to that, we also know that the design of many Hinckley-era smaller temples has been adjusted.
You can review what is changing in terms of the smaller temples built by President Hinckley by checking out the following previous post on my blog:
http://stokessoundsoff.blogspot.com/2017/10/more-details-provided-about-memphis.html
With all of that noted, since President Nelson didn't personally indicate either way what exactly he terms as "pioneer-era" temples, the specifics of what he meant may largely be open to interpreation. But given the fact that the Church has had a recent history of closing temples for renovation that were originally constructed in a "pioneer" scenario (for example, the Frankfurt Germany Temple, which has been undergoing renovation and will be rededicated in October, or its' fellow German counterpart in Freiberg, which was rededicated in 2016), the idea that "pioneer-generation temples" may refer to that era in various nations, which is not limited to the four temples in question.
But since it is open to interpretation, I hope at least that my explanation here illustrates where I am coming from when I suggest that pioneer-era temples may mean different things in different nations of the world. In the meantime, thank you, Melbourne, for stopping by to share your thoughts.
I'd think most early era temples have or are currently under renovation. Temples from the 1910's-1960's and beyond have already had major work completed and rededication done. E.g Mesa Az, Carldson Alberta, Laie Hawaii, Hamilton NZ, Idaho Falls, Oakland Ca, Bern Switzerland, London England. Since the 1990s have all been dedicated or currently under renovation. Los Angeles is overdue. Pioneer temples in other nations would be the ones built in the 1980's onwards Korea, Manila Philippines, Taiwan, South Africa, Sydney Australia, South Pacific Islands, South America, Europe. Many have already been dedicated from that time and some still wait. Just my thoughts on the subject I'm all for to see international pioneer temples closed and rededicated I am but from the looks of it most of it is already done.
ReplyDelete*Rededicated (not dedicated, sorry autocorrect)
ReplyDeleteHello, William. No need to worry about your autocorrect. I do wish autocorrect was more of a choice on most devices. I have found ways to disable mine on the main devices I use. That said, I believe you are correct in what you said. In fact, I just consulted my relevant files on the subject, and what I found was pretty interesting. Many of the older temples have been rededicated once or twice already. But if, as I mentioned above, the focus is on temples which either have not yet been renovated, or have not had a renovation occur within the last 30-40 years, that opens up quite a few more prospects, with several that will reach that range of time within the next 2-5 years, if they are not closed for renovation prior to that.
DeleteWith the information announced by President Nelson regarding when the Salt Lake renovation plans will be detailed, that leaves 22 temples which could be considered part of the "pioneer generation" up through those originally dedicated in 1990. But I also have 35 Hinckley-era temples on which I am keeping my eyes for information. That is a total of at least 57 temples which could, depending on various circumstances, close within the next 5-7 years for a renovation process. It will be interesting to see what happens with temple renovations this year. I think it would be safe to assume that the Salt Lake closure will happen before the end of this year, likely at some point between the July 8 closure of the Hong Kong China Temple and the November 4 closure for the St. George Temple. And it would not shock me at all if other temples have a renovation closure set to occur before the end of this year.
In view of what transpired during this General Conference weekend, I have been running around like the proverbial chicken with its' head cut off in my efforts to make all the necessary updates to the relevant files I keep. But hopefully I will have quite a few projects ready to post here later this week. I should also mention that I anticipate that we may hear something this week about who will be presiding over next Sunday's dedication of the Kinshasa Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple, and that it would not shock me if President Nelson soon heads out on another leg of his Global Ministry Tour, whether or not the dedication of that temple is part of it.
Above and beyond that, last year, on the Thursday following the April General Conference, the First Presidency announced area leadership assignments that went into effect four months later. I anticipate therefore that the area leadership changes which will be effective on August 1 of this year may be announced this upcoming Thursday.
I will have much more to share throughout this week, including my thoughts on the General Conference weekend, a report on the results of my predictions for it, and an analysis of some recent temple developments, among other things. Stay tuned for all of that. In the meantime, thank you again, William, for taking time to comment.
Hi, its Brett here, not sure why my name is Melbourne on here.
ReplyDeleteI think given his comments on the enormous sacrafice and craftmanship, he is referring specifically of the Utah pioneer temples. Temples prior to that could be, and are bundled together by Rick on his site as restoration temples. Hawaii, Canada, Mesa and Idaho Falls were the colonies temples, followed by LA and Oakland with the international temples based in NZ, Switzerland and England constituting the 4th wave of temple development under President Mckay.
I understand what you mean by pioneering temples, but I think in this instance there is no ambiguity.
The refresh of Temple Square is interesting. I would love to see the various sites around Temple Square consolidated into one seamless campus with parks and gardens surrounding it like a green belt. I cannot wait till the announcement.
True a green belt would look great. But if the church has other plans I suppose that's what the Conference Centre's extra large rooftop is for, a city centre urban park filled with gardens, fountains and a great view of the valley. Even though the centre is across the street and included in Temple Square maps if a green belt can't be decided on, a park like garden rooftop (on top of a suitable building( alike to the centre will be very much appreciated.
DeleteI wonder of they will revert back to the original Salt Lake temple size such as removing the annex. That may open up more garden space. It appeare that the visitors centers may be torn down, rebuilt, or renovated as part of the plan. I wonder of the plans inlclude other buildings across then street such as the museum and family history library. I also wonder of St. George, Manti, and Logan will go back to a origional design that supports the live sessions. No matter what happens, it all seems exciting.
DeleteHello, Brett, William, and Chris, and thanks for these additional comments. Brett, I believe the "pioneer-era" temples may be open to interpretation because when he originally referenced them in October of last year, he mentioned pioneer-generation temples, then mentioned by name the four oldest temples of the Church, implying to me that the definition could be seen as more of a broad term.
DeleteIn the meantime, I don't know exactly or specifically what the renovations might entail for the Salt Lake Temple, but it appears as though, since an announcement is scheduled to detail that process in less than two weeks, that the plans were likely in development either just prior to or not long after President Nelson's prophetic administration began last year. That seems to indicate that he was just waiting until October to mention those plans and until this last weekend to set a date for the release of those plans to ensure they would be completely ready for that to occur.
It is interesting that there was a rumor of the Salt Lake Temple closing for renovation around 2 decades ago, and now that is actually going to occr. I don't know how long the actual process of that renovation will be, but this is another thrilling example of something unprecedented occurring. It will be good to get those details, and you can count on me to bring a report of that information as I become aware of it. My thanks again to you three for taking time to comment.
The interior of the Salt Lake Temple would take sometime to peel back paint and accumulated dirt and dust and refresh. The exterior hasn’t had a deep clean since the early 90’s, and I don’t think the temple has been retrofitted for earthquake strengthening yet either.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to see what the full plans are as the quality and standards and aesthetics of Church construction has been elevated significantly since the 1960’s renovations. The sealing room annex windows have always felt a bit off to me compared to the originals. I hope they are revisited with something more sympathetic to the originals. Interesting congecture on the sealing annex being removed. With so many temples within proximity, is the additional wear and tear justified anymore?
The visitors centres are lovely now, I wonder if they might be rebuilt in a more sympathetic “modern classical” style in line with the other buildings. I know this is such a trivial thing, but at the very least, it would be nice if the accoustic tiles in the various buildings are replaced with a seamless “hard lid ceiling” and decorative cornices.
One last thing that might be nice is a reclad of the Church office block.
Hello again, Brett, and thank you for this additional comment. I understand why some people may feel that the annex of the Salt Lake Temple is either underutilized, out of place, or both. Here's my take on removing it: the annex served a very special purpose just last year, when the announcement of a new First Presidency was made in that area. This was done, as President Nelson mentioned, because the First Presidency wanted to begin with the end in mind. Such an announcement before the press conference introducing the new lineup of the Presiding High Priests of the Church was unprecedented, but I have a feeling that since President Nelson showed a willingness to do things differently in that case (among so many others) such an announcement of future new First Presidency organizations may also be announced in that area. And if President Nelson ever does detail his temple expansion plans, especially outside of General Conference, I could see a scenario where he might make such an announcement from that same annex where he was introduced as Church President.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, I suppose it is also possible that the annex could be replaced somehow with a designated area in which the broadcast of any major announcements like that could originate going forward. But I also know that President Nelson has not been afraid to do things differently, nor has he in any way been reticent to give the Lord credit for instructions he has subsequently passed along to the Church, so I am sure that if anything is done to the annex specifically, that will be based on inspiration from the Lord. Thank you, Brett, for taking time to comment.
Sorry. One additional thought. I honestly don't know whether or not the design or layout of the temple would change. Since this is going to be the first long-term and full-scale renovation, there will be a lot to do that will take a lot of time. But in the same breath, I am reminded that when Church President Brigham Young first determined the spot for the temple, he took some time to seek inspiration from the Lord on what needed to be done. The plans he approved were maintained and unchanged while construction continued, and the temple was built to stand throughout the Millenium. With that in mind, I am not sure whether President Nelson would be prompted to change the exterior look or layout of some parts of the temple. But since we also have seen President Nelson follow inspiration to implement difference in procedures and practices, there is likely reason to believe that some things will change in terms of the layout and look. Just some additional thoughts from me, for what they may be worth to any who read them here. Thanks again, Brett.
ReplyDeleteApologies, I meant the sealing room addition on the side of the temple that was added in the 1960’s alterations, not the annex where the announcement was made.
ReplyDeleteNo worries, Brett. Thanks for providing that clarification.
ReplyDeleteJames, not sure if you were on Matt's blog but I posted something there yesterday in an older blog post of his so you may never see it since he has posted a couple new posts since conference being over. It relates to the building of many more temples and fewer chapels. The quote is on page 405-406 of the new book about him written by Sheri Dew. This is the quote. I will actually layout the longer version here so you can have context of the quote I posted on Matt's blog.
ReplyDelete"As President of the Quorum of the Twelve, President Nelson encouraged frequent conversation with his Brethren about the "imbalance between what we are doing as a church and what we must do" as he described it.
Those who drive by or enter Latter-day Saints chapels see beautiful landscaping, nice parking lots, and handsome buildings with basketball courts inside. And yet most of the pole of the earth live in China, India, and the Middle East- areas where billions live stacked on top of each other, wall to wall.
"One question we've wrestled with," President Nelson said, "is how to take the gospel in its simple purity and the ordinances with their eternal efficacy to all of God's children without having basketball hoops get in the way. We are accustomed to a church that is supported at home but accomplished in the chapels. We need a complete turnaround, where we have a home-centered church supported by what takes place inside our buildings. THE ONLY BUILDINGS THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL ARE TEMPLES (CAPS ADDED BY ME). Stake centers and chapels are a luxury. This imbalance is on our worry list- high on the list. One Muslim man said it this way, "When your Christianity is simple enough that I can take it with me on the back of a camel, I will be interested." Faith, repentance, baptism, the endowment, and the sealing ordinance are essential. Everything you'll see happening in the Church from this point forward will be in that direction."
That was a long quote but I wanted to give you context and something to chew on. I believe he will be announcing hundreds of temples in the coming years to fix the "imbalance" of necessary buildings(temples) to those that a luxury (chapels). Everything we have heard about his desire to add a zero to the number of current temples or that he wants to build more temples now than chapels are fully supported by his own words in this book. Exciting times ahead. Also if you can afford it, I would seriously buy the book. It is well worth the read and the details behind the scenes you get of several of the developments of the last 20 years. The book takes us up to Dec 2018 of his ministry.
Thank you for taking time to comment, The Accountant. I have heard about that book, and have at least read public discussions where the quote in question is mentioned. With a confirmation of President Nelson's personal words on the subject, it is clear that something big is coming down the pike. I have felt that way for at least the last 8 months based on what apostles said or on what those who have spoken to them have been quoting them as saying.
ReplyDeleteThat said, there are obviously going to be a few elements at play here. Most stakes, at least around where I live, have scheduled all of the wards in their buildings to meet earlier on in the day, since operational costs associated with systems within each chapel tend to be far more expensive towards the afternoon and evening hours. As a result, the procedure currently here in Orem involves the first ward in each building meeting at 9 AM, the second meeting at 11, and a third (where applicable) meeting at 1 PM. And that is the case in other parts of Utah, which has helped with the operational costs.
It has been suggested that perhaps the switch to the 2-hour block could mean that less buildings are needed, if more congregations can meet in each existing building. While in a way I can understand the merits of that idea, in areas where congregations are more spread out, adjusting the meeting times to allow more congregations to meet in such buildings on Sunday may not be feasible from a geographical standpoint. That said, in areas such as Utah, where it is often the case that a lot of chapels exist, I could see a scenario where 4 wards meet in a buidling, with meeting times at 9, 10:30, noon, and 1:30.
In my stake in Idaho, one ward is part of a test trying out 8:30, 10:00, 11:30
DeleteThat actually makes sense. I suppose there are options for the first start time. At one point, I heard of wards that have Sacrament Meetings at 8:00 AM on the earlier side and 4:00 or 5:00 PM on the later side. Of course, that was before the shift to the two-hour block. So while I don't see congregations meeting unusually late like that, 8:00 or 8:30 would be a feasible solution. I believe my parents' ward had that occur in some way while the building for the 2 wards who met therein was being renovated, and we had to share another buidling with the two wards that normally met there. One thing for which I am grateful, however, is that it is not up to me to make decisions in that respect. There seems to be a lot of flexibility on the stake or area level to make determinations about when meeting times are set. And I am sure that will continue to be the case. Thanks for sharing that insight. I was very interested to hear it.
DeleteAs I mentioned on Matt's blog recently, I received feedback from a knowledgeable source whose credentials I verified as being in a unique position to know about this indicated to me that the plan may ultimately be to have hundreds of new temples dedicated in the near future. The implication was that the Church could see a day where 3 new temples of the Church are regularly dedicated roughly every 6 weeks. That implies that a minimum of 26 new temples could be dedicated on average any given year. And I emphasize the phrase at minimum, because that could just be where the number of temples increases for a start.
ReplyDeleteI have also offered my thoughts that President Nelson could continue to announce several new temples every six months in General Conference for the foreseeable future, with several more announced in between each April and October and subsequent April. And many of them appear likely to be in the mold of the 3 templs set to have a groundbreaking less than 4 weeks from now, on Saturday May 4 in Yigo Guam, Praia Cabo Verde, and San Juan Puerto Rico, with a design and floor plan that can easily be approved so that a groundbreaking could be held well within a year of their announcements in General Conference4.
If that turns out to be the case, then that will be a host of new temples that will be able to be constructed and dedicated within 2 years or less from their respective groundbreaking ceremonies. Let me put this into further perspective: Per the year-end 2018 Statistical Report released during the General Conference weekend, there were 161 total temples by that time. By the end of this year, there will either be 168 or 169. And that number will increase to around 175 by around this time two years from now, based on what I understand about what is anticipated to occur between now and then.
With all of that in mind, President Nelson has a very definitive plan, but recognizes the wisdom in starting slowly and increasing the number of temples in a methodical and reasonable way to begin with. Based on other things I have heard, once the process of constructing several smaller temples in a very short amount of time has been tested and the process thereof has been fine-tuned to smoothly and quickly occur, that is when the Church will begin to see the most significant and substantial increase in the total number of temples worldwide.
Sorry about my lenghty response, but hope the information I shared is helpful to you, The Accountant, and to all others who may read it. Thank you for taking time to comment and for sharing that quote from that book. I will have to look at getting it in the future if my circumstances allow that to occur. Thanks again.
I believe the pioneer era temples are the 4 specified, St. George, Salt Lake, Manti, and Logan. Also, not sure why the annexes would be removed, they are busy most days the temple is open. Third thought, the Salt Lake Temple design did change from the original design, for example the foundation, some of the windows were to have symbols, and the tops of the spires.
ReplyDeleteHello, coachodeeps, and thank you for taking time to comment. Since you are the second person (not including myself) to address what was likely meant by the "pioneer-generation temples", I took some time just now to do some research. I first looked at President Nelson's closing remarks from last October. The relevant portion of those remarks which address this question is as follows: "plans are now being made to renovate and update the Salt Lake Temple and other pioneer-generation temples. Details on these projects will be shared as they are developed."
DeleteThen I turned to the news release from the Church's Newsroom reporting on the temple news shared in that address, which emphasizes one other relevant sentence of context from that announcement: "With the passage of time, temples are inevitably in need of refreshing and renewal." So from that portion of his remarks, there is little to indicate that the context thereof only relates to the four oldest temples of the Church. In fact, that specification was never personally made by President Nelson, unless I have overlooked something in his October concluding remarks.
Fast forward to the recent General Conference weekend. It was actually the Newsroom this go-round rather than President Nelson that actually referenced the first four temples of the Church by name. The relevant part of the news release contains a couple of sentences which are relevant to the discussion here. We read in the opening paragraph following the list of the 8 temple locations that "President Nelson also provided an update on the renovation of pioneer-generation temples." After sharing what President Nelson said regarding the Salt Lake Temple renovation announcement, the article goes on to say "He also said the Manti and Logan Temples would be renovated in the coming years.
Adding to that was Elder Wilson's reference to the regularity whereby temples undergo renovation. In conjunction with interviews which were held during the Jordan River Utah Temple open house last year, the Deseret News quoted Elder Wilson as saying that temples are remodeled and upgraded every 30-35 years.
Based on what I have shared additionally here, then technically any temple which was built as a result of a pioneering design or construction process that has not been renovated within the last 35 years (or even at all) would fit the description of President Nelson's actual statement. That being said, it is possible that there is something I have overlooked in my explanation here, so I will leave the web addresses to President Nelson's October 2018 General Conference address, the April 2019 Newsroom article, and the Jordan River Utah Temple article I cited herein. Those web addresses follow. Please let me know if I have overlooked anything, and thanks for stopping by to comment, coachodeeps.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/10/becoming-exemplary-latter-day-saints?lang=eng
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/eight-new-temples-april-2019-general-conference
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900012918/whether-or-not-you-can-attend-the-jordan-river-temple-open-house-here-are-11-things-you-should-know-about-the-renovations.html
Sorry. Just to clarify, President Nelson mentioned the Salt Lake Temple by name last October, but not any of the other three the same way. Thanks again.
DeleteI should perhaps have also mentioned that the Salt Lake Temple, much like the original Nauvoo Temple and the Kirtland Ohio Temple, includes design, finish, and other details at the direction of the Lord to the prophets involved in building these temples. That makes it dificult to ascertain whether modern advances in the process of renovating temples would affect or impact the elements of the Salt Lake Temple's design, finish, and symbolism that were given to the prophet by such revelation. But it will be interesting to see. And I have a feeling, given President Nelson's willingness to defy typical expectations, that some elements of the renovation plans for the Salt Lake Temple will come as a surprise to us. It will be interesting to find out more about thqt roughly 10 days from now, give or take around 10-14 hours. Whatever might occur, we have much to look forward to.
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ReplyDeleteJames, I am not meaning President Nelson mentioned the 4 temple by name, however, the news releases from the church have been specific in pointing to these 4 temples even referring to Pres Nelson's remarks. Now, will other temples need renovation at some point? Of course. Just as they have been. But, his remarks during the last 2 conferences are in regards to these temples the Utah pioneers built.
ReplyDeletecoachodeeps, thank you for taking time to clarify the intent and meaning of your prior statements. Let me now do the same. The beauty of matters unrelated to doctrine, policy, or practice of the Church is that many Church leaders, especially prophets and apostles through the years, have advocated for the idea that members should do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
ReplyDeleteIn that respect, if what you have read leads you to believe that President Nelson's reference to "pioneer-era" temples applies exclusively to the first four dedicated in Utah that are still operating today, I fully respect that. For my part, I have read a fair amount over the last several months. What I have read reinfoces the concept that, while the Church should be unified in its' curriculum and music, the interpretation of anything unrelated to doctrine, principle, or practice is up to us as individuals.
And in that respect, if what you have read on this subject leads you to conclude that the term "pioneer-generation temples" applies more specifically and soely to just the first four temples dedicated in Utah, I commend you for that conclusion. At the same time, while I appreciate the importance of the Church having a unified curriculum, Church meeting schedule, and sacred music collections, I have long considered it wise to recognize that different nations in which the Church has been established are in markedly different phases of Church history.
By that I mean that there are some in the Palmyra and Kirtland phase, where the Church is in its' infancy, and there is much room for growth. There are others in the Missouri phase where their faith has been challenged through persecutions. There are some in the Nauvoo phase, where a brief respite may be followed by intesified persecution, which could ultimately lead to expulsion from familial circles or established communities. There are others in the pioneer phase, who have found the place the Lord has prepared for them, and are building new communities ready to become future strongholds of the Church. That much has been confimed by several statements made by Church leaders in different settings, including some teachings of President Nelson during his Global Ministry Tour legs last year.
With that and the specified statment from Elder Wilson regarding how often temples need to be renovated, I see evidence that leads me to take a broader view of the term "pioneer-era temples". I have a feeling and overall sense that there are many surprises ahead for the Church, including in terms of temple renovations, and I look forward to seeing what's next.
In the meantime, coachodeeps, I appreciate your thoughtfully-offered insights relating to this question. You have given me much to think about. Thank you, as always, for taking time to comment.
Why the need to renovate all these temples all of a sudden? Haven't they've been renovated numerous times before so that they could meet safety codes? Surely, the Oakland Temple was built up to earthquake cod in the first place -- so why the renovations across the board?
ReplyDeleteAre they renovating all the temples to be tornado/hurricane-, fire-, flooding-, or nucelar- proof in addition to the earthquake proofs?? :p
Or are they adding more baptismal fonts so so baptismal ordinances can hasten?
Are they enlarging them?
Or are they changing the interior to make it more effective for 24/7 operation for when that time will arise... (in the next decade or so).
Or are they adding like a Genealogy/Family History annex right on the grounds too?
Or is it simply: "update style." It seems like they would gradually do aesthetic work on Pioneer-Era Temples -- not all at once for several years.
What is the real reason for the sweeping renovations? Guesses?
Hello, and thank you for taking time to comment. The Executive Director of the Temple Department has been quoted as saying temples need to be renovated due to wear and tear from use and aging roughly once every 30-35 years. There are some of the older temples which have, in fact, never been closed before for a full-scale renovationm, and those would be given priority. Aside from those two factors, the temples built in the Hinckley era were designed to be able to get approval and be constructed relatively quickly with the same basic floor plan with the intent of providing temples in short order to areas that needed them the most. But that construction process was done on the understanding that, if and when the need arose, the Hinckley-era temples, of which there are around 60-70, would be renovated later on once growth in the area exceeded the capacity of the current temple design, which would then make it necessary to tweak the floor plan with the adjustments that have already been similarly made to other temples originally dedicated during the late 1990s and early 2000s.
DeleteSlightly related to that, the three temples set to have a groundbreaki8ng on May 4 may be the "new normal" design for smaller temples in most cases. When any building is subject to wear and tear due to age, or when the capacity of such buildings cannot match the need of a growing area, changes are needed. And that applies to any major building, whether governmental, religious, medical, etc. It should not therefore be surprising that the Church has had to renovate so many temples lately, and we have a pretty good indication that renovations for other temples will be needed in the future for most if not all of the same reasons. Let me know if that doesn't help answer your question, and I will try to address anything additional that might be on your mind. THanks for taking time to comment.
So, with the transcripts available, I read what Pres. Nelson said about the renovations of temples. He mentions each of the first 4 temples in Utah by name. He doesn't allude to any other.
ReplyDelete"We now have 162 dedicated temples. The earliest ones stand as monuments to the faith and vision of our beloved pioneers. Each temple constructed by them resulted from their great personal sacrifice and effort. Each one stands as a stunning jewel in the crown of pioneer achievement.
Ours is a sacred responsibility to care for them. Therefore, these pioneer temples will soon undergo a period of renewal and refreshing and, for some, a major restoration. Efforts will be made to preserve the unique historicity of each temple wherever possible, preserving the inspiring beauty and unique craftsmanship of generations long-since passed.
Details for the St. George Utah Temple have already been released. Plans for the renovation of the Salt Lake Temple, Temple Square, and the adjoining plaza near the Church Office Building will be announced on Friday, April 19, 2019.
The Manti and Logan Utah Temples will also be renovated in coming years. When those plans are prepared, they too will be announced.
This work will require that each temple be closed for a period of time. Church members may continue to enjoy temple worship and service in other temples nearby. When each project is completed, each historic temple will be rededicated."
So, specific to the renovation announcements during conference, Press Nelson is talking about those first 4. I know, as has been done previously, and continues to be done, there will be other renovations. But, please don't read further into Pres Nelson's statement. He talks specifically about these 4. He is typically very specific, and precise in his wording in his talks.
coachodeeps, the specific wording of the exact quote from President Nelson is well-taken, and I thank you for sharing it. President Nelson has always been very specific, and I take him at his word in this case. Thank you for sharing that snippet of his remarks. I would certainly not try to make more of his specific statement than his exact words indicated. I happily concede to your point that President Nelson's exact words in this case relate solely to the first four temples. Thank you for establishing that point beyond doubt.
ReplyDeleteWith that clarification in mind, on my end, I have dug into the statements I have cited previously from the Executive Directors of the Temple Departments. The idea that a temple will close roughly every 30-35 years for renovation comes with a caveat: The Church would not, for example, want to close multiple temples in a single region at the same time. I seem to recall someone mentioning either here on this blog or on the Church Growth blog comment threads that, with the Hamilton New Zealand Temple currently closed, some of the New Zealand Saints were going to the Manila Philippines Temple. So although Manila might qualify for a renovation based on the time since it was dedicated, I could see the Church holding off on renovating that temple until Hamilton is back up and running, or until the Urdaneta Temple is dedicated.
I have also mentioned in the past that my sister's family, who are currently living in Georgia, have friends in the same regions affected by the present renovations for the Memphis, OKC, Raleigh, and Baton Rouge Temples. According to my sister, their friends who fall within those temple districts have a lot further to travel to get to the neaarest temple. That has me wondering whether the Church would try to avoid having four temples serving similar regions closed at the same time in the future.
As with all things, I am grateful that the Church has been smart about the process of renovating temples. I also am grateful that, in relation to such renovation plans, the Church has gone about those in an intelligent way. I am definitely looking forward to hearing the announcement of the plans for the Salt Lake Temple renovation one week from tomorrow.
Just some additional musings from me, for what they might be worth to anyone who reads them. In the meantime, thank you again, coachodeeps, for drawing our attention to President Nelson's exact words. I appreciate hearing from you. and am grateful that the question of what was meant by the reference to the "pioneer=generation" temples has now been settled.
Thank you for understanding, James. One thought in multiple temples in regions of the world being closed at the same time, if I recall correctly, the 2 temples in Germany were closed for renovation at the same time (overlapped for about a year) I found that interesting. Also, it often seems when a temple its announced there is one in the area that is then soon closed for renovation or has been already prior to the announcement. Another instance is when a new temple has yet to be announced or announced after the temple is renovated.
ReplyDeleteA few examples would be: Ogden and Brigham City; Washington County and St. George (possibly, depending on St. George remodeling plans); Idaho Falls and Pocatello (although on the north there was Rexburg); Hamilton New Zealand Zealand and Aukland New Zealand.
I believe there are two Church departments that deal with temples. One deals with building new temples and the other is focused on renovations, updating the various procedures and processes that go along with the various ordinances, and upgrading systems. So, I wonder if there is some miscues or non-communication st the department level. I could just be reading to much into these situations but it would be nice for those in the areas that they could coordinate the renovations and new temples even better.
Hello, coachodeeps. I apologize for my delay in getting back to you. I have been experiencing another bout of personal illness, so I had to step back and give myself time to deal with that, though I was able to read your comment not long after it was posted here.
DeleteOne thing I hope people know about me is that, while I have a habit of sticking to an opinion for which I have a strong reason for supporting, if new information casts a new light on such topics, I am more than happy to adjust my perspective and opinions based on anything I may have overlooked. Thank you again, coahcodeeps, for finding the information that supported your statements.
The closures of the Frankfurt and Freiberg Temples did occur at around the same time. Freiberg was closed from February 9, 2015 until it was rededicated on September 4, 2016. The Frankfurt Temple closed on September 7, 2015, and that temple will, as we now know, be rededicated on October 20 of this year.
Ogden closed on April 2, 2011 and was rededicated on September 21, 2014, with the Brigham City Temple being dedicated on September 23, 2010. The St. George renovation may wrap up in mid-to-late 2022 or so, and I believe I recall hearing someone who quoted the Temple Department Executive Director as saying that Washington County might not be ready for dedication before St. George is rededicated. The Idaho Falls temple was actually rededicated just two months after Pocatello was announced. And in relation to New Zealand, if the Church confirms that the land held in reserve in Auckland will be the spot for the temple, depending on how fast construction can start, there may or may not be overlap.
There are two departments which handle temple-related matters, but the Temple Department oversees both renovations and the construction of new temples. THe other department involved in that process is (unless I am mistaken) the Physical Facilities division. When a temple is renovated, that department handles the removal of furnishings, artwork, etc, before turning it over to the Temple Department for the renovation process, and the Temple Department then hands it off to the construction crew. The reverse is the case once a new or renovated temple is being readied for rededicaqtion. I believe that is the correct order of things. Anyone else can chime in and correct or clarify this if I am mistaken in that respect. But I do know that the Executive Director of the Temple Department and his assistants are very much involved in both oversight for the construction of new temples and for the renovation of existing temples.
DeleteAs to your other statement, there is coordination involved in new temple construction and the renovation of other temples. But I wonder if the intent at times is to provide an opportunity for members in an area affected by renovation closures and new temple construction to gain appreciation for other Saints around the world who have to travel inordinate distances to their temples. If that is the case, then hopefully that in turn would serve to enhance the appreciation of those Saints once newly-renovated or newly-constructed temples are back online.
I happen to know, for example, that the friends of my sister's family who have been impacted through the closures of Memphis, OKC, Raleigh, and Baton Rouge have indicated that, now that they understand more what other Saints have sacrificed to get to their temples, once these four temples are back up and running, there will be an increase in their use.
Of course, that is based on what I hear from a second-hand report. But for what it's worth, I also know that no renovation closure occurs while a new temple is constructed without full understanding on the part of the Brethren as to how the Saints in those areas will be impacted. There is always a method to such scenarios, and I am sure the Brethren will continue to make wise decisions in that respect.
Final thought from me: Elder Larry Y. Wilson turns 70 this year, and will thus likely be released as the Executive Director of the Temple Department. I have no doubt there will be a lot of assignment shuffling over the next several months between now and when new assignments become effective on August 1. That includes departmental assignments, area assignments, etc. I had anticipated the release of new area assignments at some point this week, but that may not occur.
These are just some additional thoughts from me, for what they may be worth. As always, coachodeeps, thank you for taking time to comment.
I appreciate your answers and thoughts. What I said may have come of more negative than anticipated, it was not meant to be. Just wish the was closer temples to those that go under renovation and sometimes that comes during our after those closures. By the way the Brigham City Temple was dedicated in 2012, not 2010, so the was an overlap by about a year and a half.
ReplyDeleteNo worries, coachodeeps. I know I have often wondered why the Church would renovate temples in certain areas where there are not other temples currently nearby that could help facilitate temple work in such regions during those closures. The examples I shared of the four US temples which are presently closed that serve similar regions demonstrates that the Saints affected by those closures have gained a new understanding of and appreciation for what Saints in many other parts of the world have had to sacrifice to get to the temple. Having gained that knowledge, the Saints in the impacted areas are preparing to more fully utilize those temples once they are back up and running.
DeleteWhat will intrigue me most about the upcoming announcement of the renovation plans for the Salt Lake Temple is to find out where the Brethren of the First Presidency and the Twelve will have their weekly temple meetings during the closure of that temple. There are options in that respect, and I am sure that that has been considered in whatever the plans entail, but it has been quite a while (assuming it has ever happened previously) since the Brethren have not met weekly in the Salt Lake Temple. Lots to look forward to there.
And you are correct on the dedication year of the Brigham City Utah Temple. I somehow entered the groundbreaking year instead of the dedication year. It was interesting how involved President Packer was with the construction of that temple. He gave President Monson input that had been requested about the location of the temple, he presided at the groundbreaking, and he was asked to dedicate that temple, which he did in company with the two members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles junior to him (Elder Perry and then-Elder Nelson).
It surely is interesting to see developments occur in terms of temple construction, and there will be more to come, I am sure. In the meantime, coachodeeps, thank you for taking time to comment. I always appreciate hearing from you.
The renovation refresh for it's 100th anniversary required the temple to close down for a time (https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/1993/03/a-temple-renewed?lang=eng)and the major renovation in the 1960's also required the temple to close down for a period of time. Plus there are regular mini maintenance shut downs that happen periodically.
ReplyDeleteI find Good Friday an interesting date to choose to reveal the plans for The Salt Lake Temple, Temple Square and adjoining main street and church administration plaza.
I also found it interesting that the Hamilton New Zealand temple was closed before the new Auckland Temple was completed. It has now left the members without a temple for at least 3 years.
Michael, thank you for stopping by to comment. You are correct that a type of renovation work has been done on the Salt Lake Temple before which has required a closure. And the article you cited did indicate the closure. But insofar as I have been able to ascertain, with the work done on those projects largely by Church members, none of those prior renovations required an open house, or a rededication of any kind, whether public or private. The fact that this is going to be a full-scale renovation with an open house and rededication makes the process distinct and different this time around. If the rumors I have heard are anywhere near correct in that respect, then that may be the first rededication for a while that will be broadcast more widely than just to the district of that temple, and could in some respects be a Churchwide thing. Not sure how that would work logistically, but that's what I have heard through the proverbial grapevine.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I find it interesting that the Church has closed so many temples where no other temples are operating nearby currently. I gather that is the case to perhaps give members in those areas a greater appreciation for the Saints in some areas of the world where extensive travel and sacrifice is required to visit the temple just once. If that is the case, then when these temples are back up and running, the Saints in those districts will be more likely t use them more frequently as a result. I think that we may see a groundbreaking for the Auckland temple within the next 12-18 months or so, and if that happens, the odds are fairly good that the Hamilton temple will be rededicated at around the time Auckland is dedicated, giving the New Zealanders two temples after not having any between now and then. With that said, whether or not that can occur remains to be seen. If President Nelson does look over the land where the Auckland temple is likely to be built, then the groundbreaking for the temple in that city could occur before the end of this year.
Hope these insights, for what they may be worth, are helpful to you. Thanks again, Michael!
Sorry, Brett. My response above was interrupted through my taking care of a few other things, so apparently I addressed my response above to Michael, which is the name of one of my other regular commenters here, rather than to you. My apologies for that. Because I forgot to whom I was addressing my last comment mid-way through, I also realizerd I didn't need to explain things about Hamilton and Auckland to you, and I regret doing so. Thank you for that article. It was wonderful to read it. And thank you for your well-taken points. I always aoppreciate hearing from you.
ReplyDeleteHey mate, no need to apologise. It’s all very exciting to see all the options. Can’t wait to see the announcement in two days.
ReplyDeleteThank you for that, Brett. If what I hear is correct, the detailed announcement on the Salt Lake Temple renovation plans may be made at around this time tomorrow afternoon. Time will tell whether that proves to be correct. I look forward to hearing and reporting on that announcement. Exciting times indeed. Thanks again, Brett!
ReplyDelete